Edge.. Is it a 3g or 2.5g and why ? [Archive]

jmax577

06-03-2005, 05:52 PM

no wait, thats wrong. analog was considered to be 1g. gsm, cdma, tdma were all considered 2g. gsm/gprs is considered 2.5 g, and finally EDGE is considered 2.75g. UMTS/FOMA/Wcdma are all considered 3g. FOMA and UMTS are derivitives of wcdma technology. EDGE is simply three gprs signals overlayed thus getting 3x the rate of gprs.

FooLiSH

06-04-2005, 02:32 AM

Thanks for your replies all, but till now no one told me for sure if its 2.5 or 3g and why ??

:confused:

3gpeasy

06-04-2005, 10:45 AM

Michael is always saying that EDGE qualifies as 3G because of the data speeds, aparently anything above 128kbps counts as 3G.

But i think most of us think of "3G" as being proper UMTS/WCDMA and would count EDGE as being somewhere at the end of the second generation, most commonly 2.75G

jmax577

06-04-2005, 01:34 PM

its somewhere in the middle

Karim

06-04-2005, 03:45 PM

3G = Any speed > 144kbit/s
EDGE = 352kbit/s, sometimes less or more, but always > 144kbit/s
<=> Therefore
EDGE = 3G.

jmax577

06-04-2005, 04:05 PM

well alrighty then

3gpeasy

06-04-2005, 07:31 PM

3G = Any speed > 144kbit/s
EDGE = 352kbit/s, sometimes less or more, but always > 144kbit/s
<=> Therefore
EDGE = 3G.

that's what i was saying, it's fast enough to qualify as 3g, but most of us still don't think of it as 3g, cos it's not wcdma

Karim

06-05-2005, 04:22 AM

3G = Third Generation Speeds
WCDMA is the ability to make videocalls and such on a Third Generation network.

FooLiSH

06-05-2005, 04:53 AM

3G = Any speed > 144kbit/s
EDGE = 352kbit/s, sometimes less or more, but always > 144kbit/s
<=> Therefore
EDGE = 3G.

So its a 3G?
and can i get more reasons because i need this information for a report at college please

:(

Karim

06-05-2005, 06:08 AM

It's the only reason...
Third generation speeds are higher than 144kbit/s and EDGE is higher than that!

3gpeasy

06-05-2005, 09:20 AM

So its a 3G?
and can i get more reasons because i need this information for a report at college please

:(

what's the question you're trying to answer at college? cos we've pretty much answered your question here every way it can be answered i think

Karim

06-05-2005, 06:45 PM

Yes, we've given you the real reason that EDGE is in fact, a 3G service.
If you want to get more information about 3G, try Google.

06-05-2005, 08:50 PM

No need to gooooogle it just check out this link. :D

Yes it might be Fast enough to be 3G but it is not! ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDGE

Dynamoo

06-05-2005, 08:51 PM

EDGE isn't a 3G service, it's an enhanced 2G service. The speed is not relevant.

Why is it a 2G service? Well, it's just a revision of GPRS which is a 2G service, and operators can just piggyback EDGE on top of GPRS coverage for very little cost. It is, of course, a very advanced 2G service, so if GPRS is considered 2.5G, then EDGE is often considered 2.75G as it is *almost* 3G, but not actually based on a third generation technology.

In other words, I agree 100% with jmax577 on this, and I think you'll find that most people in the industry regard EDGE as a revision of 2G.

(I guess if you use HSCSD that's a 2.25G technology?)

carcomptoy

06-05-2005, 09:32 PM

I was under the impression that EDGE was 2.5G...:cool:

Because I thought:
1G: Analog
2G: GSM/GPRS
2.5G: EDGE
3G: UMTS

Dynamoo

06-05-2005, 10:24 PM

Wikipedia has an interesting article.. but one that doesn't help much..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.5G

Hmmm.

Box215

06-05-2005, 11:36 PM

I was under the impression that EDGE was 2.5G...:cool:

Because I thought:
1G: Analog
2G: GSM/GPRS
2.5G: EDGE
3G: UMTS

GPRS is 2.5, i think thats something we all can agree on

Karim

06-06-2005, 08:45 AM

3G is NOT a network mode.
WCDMA/UMTS is comparable to the word "GSM". 3G is not the same thing as "GSM".
3G is "3rd Generation". It means that the network is running 3rd Generation speeds. Which are higher than 144kbit/s...
I'm pretty confident in what I'm saying :), because GPRS is 2.5G and not 2G.

Dynamoo

06-06-2005, 09:20 AM

GPRS is definitely 2.5G.

EDGE.. well, I guess you could define it as a "3G class service running on a modified 2.5G platform".

Heck, this is quite a difficult question to answer!

difenbaker

06-06-2005, 02:12 PM

that link given by XC is quite informative.

Mobile phone standards
0G = ARP
1G = NMT, AMPS
2G = GSM, iDEN, D-AMPS, cdmaOne, PDC
2.5G = GPRS
2.75G = EDGE
3G = W-CDMA (UMTS, FOMA), CDMA2000, TD-SCDMA
3.5G =
4G =

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDGE

cheers!

3gpeasy

06-06-2005, 03:20 PM

yes, but at the same time wikipedia says:

It can carry data speeds up to 384 kbit/s in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network, and has been accepted by the ITU as part of the IMT-2000 family of 3G standards.

so it's all a bit confusing.

personally, i've always called it 2.75g

Dynamoo

06-06-2005, 05:15 PM

A Darlingtonian, eh? A quakers supporter?

I like Wikipedia, but it's not 100% accurate all the time. But.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.75G

If you're looking for definitions, another thing to try if the DEFINE command in Google, e.g. define: 2.5g. That gives quite a broad variety of results.

carcomptoy

06-06-2005, 05:34 PM

Yeah, my chemistry teacher got mad at my class for using it, because he believed it to be inaccurate and non-scientific...

In any case, I like Wikipedia because it does seem to be the most comprehensive yet concise website concerning everything...last night I couldn't stop reading about cellphone-related stuff:D

jmax577

06-06-2005, 07:25 PM

another thing to consider is edge is built upon a 2g network it is simply an enhanced gprs method. it uses a differrent shift method than gprs does creating a 3x rate. in order for something to be true 3g it has to be built upon a notated 3g network such as FOMA, UMTS, or other WCDMA based network or a CDMA 3G technology such as DO.

06-07-2005, 12:43 AM

wow we are splitting hairs around here :D

Karim

06-07-2005, 12:49 AM

I don't know anymore...
All I know is that 3G speeds are >144kbit/s
And EDGE does fit that description...

carcomptoy

06-07-2005, 01:09 AM

Right, but I think jmax577 has a valid point in that it's just an upgrade, whereas in essence, a whole new generation would be an entirely new thing:cool:

Karim

06-07-2005, 01:16 AM

I'm completely lost :)
Anyway, poor guy is gonna fail the project lol.

carcomptoy

06-07-2005, 01:26 AM

LOL I totally forgot that that was the reason for the thread...:p

For all intensive purposes, I think EDGE is 2.75G...I concur with Wikipedia wholeheartedly on this subject:D

difenbaker

06-07-2005, 02:00 AM

mmm.... this makes me kinda curious. AT&T (or was it cingular?) was reported to be testing EDGE in the US right now, right? Testing or maybe is in the process of implementing it? Anyway, one of their services they're testing on edge is "video streaming".

My question is.....what category then does this service fall under? Is it still 2.75G or is it already in the realm of 3G?

Also, is the "video streaming" of AT&T, the same as the video streaming already in service in Japan? (NTT Docomo)

cheers!

carcomptoy

06-07-2005, 02:06 AM

Wow that's old news (no offense)...

AT&T and consequently Cingular has had EDGE now for quite some time (jmax577 you wanna verify how long?) and is implented across the country. They do offer video streaming, on which the only one that's capable of taking advantage of it is the Nokia 6620, via the RealPlayer function or the MobiTV app.

While it is Video Streaming, it I'm sure cannot compare to the FOMA video streaming service in Japan provided by NTT DoCoMo, although they did help with AT&T/Cingular on their UMTS venture.

It is a tough question to anser, but I would say that while it does meet some of the criteria for being considered 3G, it's still 2.75G as it's just an upgrade and not so much a major do-over...

Shun

06-07-2005, 04:47 AM

The answer can be found easily at GSM Assoication - http://www.gsmworld.com/technology/3g/faq.shtml

Karim

06-07-2005, 04:53 AM

Is EDGE 3G?

EDGE is also part of the ITU’s IMT-2000 family and has been designed to enhance the existing GSM air interface in order to support more advanced services. However, EDGE does not represent a replacement for 3GSM. 3GSM is a more efficient carrier for data than EDGE and also provides an increased voice capacity over those systems based on the GSM air interface.

In simple terms, EDGE provides a way of supporting many of the 3G-type services using upgrades and additions to existing GSM systems. 3GSM is a new system and the most effective system for wide area mobile communications available and is therefore the choice for operators looking to deliver 3G services using new spectrum.

Thanks, Shun.

difenbaker

06-07-2005, 08:08 AM

Wow that's old news (no offense)...

hehehe, sorry... am not that updated. :D

It is a tough question to anser, but I would say that while it does meet some of the criteria for being considered 3G, it's still 2.75G as it's just an upgrade and not so much a major do-over...

right. So what japan has is 3G and what the US has is 2.75G. Thanks for the clarification. :)

cheers!

K-Money

06-09-2005, 03:46 PM

I think that GPRS is 1G or the first generation.... EDGE is 2.5G, and then wcdma/umts are 3G.

cheers!

AMPS was 1G

In 1983, the analog cell-phone standard called AMPS (Advanced Mobile Phone System) was approved.

After that CDMA and TDMA came along in the 90's and digitized AMPS therefore creating 2G. Qualcomm was the developer for the CDMA technology and then created the BREW coding that all of Verizons applications are programmed with.

GPRS (General Packet Radio Service)... not to be confused with GPS (Global Positioning System)...was created with some of the ideas of CDMA and TDMA technology and has theoretical maximum speed of up to 171.2 kilobits per second (kbps) and is therefore considered 2.5G because achieving the theoretical maximum data transmission speed of 172.2 kbps would require a single user taking over all eight timeslots without any error protection. EDGE helps realize these speeds by complimenting the GPRS thechnology and is considered 3G.

Also the wcdma/umts was an enhancement of CDMA, which pushed the original CDMA technology into the 3G phase in 2002.

True 3G has been realized and utilized mostly in Japan and has seen speeds of 2 to 10 Mbps but typical download rates are around 200 kbps. The main 3G applications are music downloads.

carcomptoy

06-09-2005, 04:51 PM

I beg to differ...WCDMA/UMTS is not an enhancement of CDMA, but rather GSM. The 3G enhancement of CDMA is CDMA2000:cool:

K-Money

06-09-2005, 09:24 PM

I beg to differ...WCDMA/UMTS is not an enhancement of CDMA, but rather GSM. The 3G enhancement of CDMA is CDMA2000:cool:

carcomptoy,
I'll have to dig a little deeper but as I understand it, and I could be wrong, Qualcomm began the enhancement of WCDMA/UMTS/GSM/GPRS in one swoop with "MSM6200" (http://http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/June2002/3575.htm) and that anything that is riding off of the MSM6200 technologies is just an enhancement. Of course MSM6200 is 3 years old so I'll have to do some more reaserch on how effective the implementation of the solution was.

Like I said i could be wrong and that was my interpretation of the material that I have read.

Here are some of the sources.
http://www.eurotechnology.com/3G/index.html (www.eurotechnology.com/3G/index.html)

http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/June2005/1504.htm (http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/June2005/1504.htm)

Thanks and I'll keep reading :)

Shun

06-09-2005, 09:25 PM

I've provide the link to GSM Association, and Karim has even quote the words from them, it should be quite clear by now that EDGE isn't consider as 3G...

However, if you read the information from GSM Assoication carefully, you will probably be surprised by the definition of 3GSM...

3GSM is a generic term used for the next generation of mobile communications systems to support the effective delivery of a range of data-orientated enhanced services and existing services, and much of the technical specifications are devised by 3GPP.

Through EDGE is part of the ITU’s IMT-2000 family, and IMT-2000 is developed by 3GPP as the ITU's framework for third-generation standards, they still don't see EDGE as part of 3GSM... (ITU stands for International Telecommunication Union)

In simple, 3GSM isn't technically tied to transfer speed, not even to any specific protocol (eg. WCDMA/UTMS), 3GSM is 3GSM as long as 3GPP consider it as 3GSM...

K-Money

06-09-2005, 09:50 PM

Not only should I keep reading i should have read all of the posts...thanks :)

3gpeasy

06-10-2005, 10:55 AM

well, who'd have thought that this would be such a contentious issue. it looked like such a simple question, didn't it? so after 3 pages, it looks like the consensus is swinging back towards what i said in the first place.

2.75G it is then.

leurx23

07-09-2005, 06:17 AM

is it all about mobile tech or just an argument where will EDGE fall among these generations of data speed transfer? well, i have no idea about all of these. im here just to ask what mobile phone nowadays has it's all? i mean a very comprehensive and significant mobile phone... just wanna get an idea from you peepz... thanks....

commedecargons

07-09-2005, 12:02 PM

Lets not talk about speed here :D

from what i've known, GPRS is regarded as 2.5G cos it not only allows internet access, it allows transmission of 'Multimedia' objects (MMS and such)

The reason people regard NTT DoCoMo's iMODE as 3G (the japs didnt call it dat way then..) is because the transmission speeds of 384k (broadband) allows for video to stream (not download) hence, people regard this technology as a third generation of cellphone communication. i guess,~ :confused:

Michael

07-09-2005, 12:38 PM

It depends on which organizations definition of 3G you follow. Some list EDGE as 3G since its max data rate of 384kbps meets the requirement they set, some mark the cutoff point as being higher, excluding EDGE and J-WCDMA (which has long been considered 3G).

In any event, I have not seen many credible references to anything being "2.75G".

When the term 3G was first coined, whoever did it surely had no idea what they were starting, and the various standards organizations obviously didn't put much thought into its use, either.

I can't wait until we people start touting "3.1G" and "3.141592G" (which will obviously be called PieG or PiG).

jayesh

07-09-2005, 02:19 PM

Pig ROFL that is a good one hehehe :D :D :D :D

Jose_R.A.M

07-09-2005, 02:34 PM

"3.141592G" (which will obviously be called PieG or PiG).

my maths teacher would so love that. he's obsessed with anything pi, ...

carcomptoy

07-09-2005, 04:05 PM

What exactly is so special about i-MODE??

EDGE was always 2.75G:rolleyes:

3gpeasy

07-11-2005, 01:35 PM

carcomptoy

07-12-2005, 12:58 AM

LOL lucky you...I'm envious of Cingular, Sprint, and Verizon customers here in America who can already watch movie clips on their phone...then again, they are the top 3 carriers:rolleyes: I once was able to watch movie trailers on my phone, but then the day after, I couldn't...it was like T-Mobile found out and disabled it. I was extremely depressed...

666joe

07-14-2005, 07:14 AM

1G Analogue -
2g - GSM - CSD circuiot switched data 9600 max
2.5g - GSM - GPRS - 52000 max
3g - UMTS - 512k max
3.5g e(enhanced) -umts -1024k max (optimized)

Seems to be variations dependant on region, no I-mode, WCDMA or edge (worth speaking of over in UK...

07-14-2005, 09:55 AM

666joe,

Read post #23 in this thread

your scale is a little off ;)

Jose_R.A.M

07-14-2005, 11:00 AM

it's not the speed, it's what you do with it that counts.

so video calling and generally streaming stuff at that rate is a prerequisite to 3G otherwise it's just doing what 2.5G can do, only better. hence 2.75G.

btw, i got TV on my phone! since i've been away (and it's been a while) my beloved employers have finally sorted me out with a 6680 with Orange TV.
that's soooo 3G it's not true, 3.1G maybe even. (jk)

1. Is that orange-tv actual live tv (not downloaded clips, like some saleswoman was trying to say to me yesterday)

2. what stuff can you watch?

3. and also, is it free for you? (might have some special staff privilages)