N73 pics .... [Archive] - MobileBurn Forums

Moby

07-02-2006, 04:18 AM

How about a couple of N73 pics to kick start a discussion ....

Click for actual images ....

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a85/moby_mburn/N73/th_01072006010.jpg (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a85/moby_mburn/N73/01072006010.jpg) http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a85/moby_mburn/N73/th_30062006.jpg (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a85/moby_mburn/N73/30062006.jpg) http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a85/moby_mburn/N73/th_02072006013.jpg (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a85/moby_mburn/N73/02072006013.jpg)

ninjabear

07-02-2006, 04:44 AM

LOl..I thought that picture on the right was a massive turd...

N73 Pics are very clear.I'm waiting for it to be released in HK.

crazyze

07-02-2006, 06:13 AM

Not bad Moby, thanks. Btw you got any new N93 pics?

manav

07-02-2006, 06:45 AM

I envy you! Am not a such big fan of the 73 though it looks promising.

Moby

07-02-2006, 07:08 AM

The above are just some snaps I took. I'm not claiming them to be perfect, or final firmware, just a few snaps.

Not bad Moby, thanks. Btw you got any new N93 pics?Saving them for another day :)

shaheen

07-02-2006, 08:16 AM

awesome phone, poor design for me :(

Jose_R.A.M

07-02-2006, 08:27 AM

chokia

07-02-2006, 08:52 AM

jayesh

07-02-2006, 09:25 AM

awesome pics why could not the freaking n80 have been atleast this good! what was nokia thinking

moby u prolly can answer this... there is a v4 firmware out does it atleast fix the photo issues on the n80 so cam is usable... ?

Moby

07-02-2006, 09:57 AM

moby u prolly can answer this... there is a v4 firmware out does it atleast fix the photo issues on the n80 so cam is usable... ?Not at the moment.

ipodee

07-02-2006, 10:05 AM

hmm gonna change to this...
the slider is not for me :)

jayesh

07-02-2006, 11:55 AM

Not at the moment.

In other words n80 users continue to be alienated with a bad cam :)

DEViANT

07-02-2006, 03:34 PM

http://static.flickr.com/55/179492283_8884bc6206_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/71/177916581_8f3cd2bfd9_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/53/177914295_209c5e3f51_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/44/177894141_13731d9426_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/78/177763933_6772ab0cdf_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/47/177757549_fdb3fee6bb_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/56/177737551_ea7edc1a75_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/51/177086613_0d0e84c34e_o.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/73/177070792_2ce4af31d9_o.jpg

These are taken with N73 too, no noise.

I know it's not a final model but the actual quality, saturation and grain of the photos just aren't up to the N90 from what I've seen. I think the only camera on a phone I've seen to come close or beat the N90 (overall) is the K750i (sharper but poorer colour). Anyway, I'm going to have to get used to it because my N90 is being sold tomorrow.

carcomptoy

07-02-2006, 07:12 PM

DEViANT

07-02-2006, 07:19 PM

Why's your N90 being sold??

idk to me those pics are awesome! I'm quite tempted to get the N73, although I would miss the WiFi from the 9500...hence, if I were to get a new phone, I'd wait for the N93;)

The N90 just isn't enough any more. And it doesn't vibrate which is getting more annoying as time passes. The incredibly poor battery life also doesn't help. On the bright side I am making £30 profit out of the sale.

N73 might be a possibility. The camera doesn't do it for me but the other features and form factor might.

zalameh1

07-02-2006, 07:57 PM

im guessing the device in the last picture is the n93.. damn it looks big, i thought it was a proper camcorder when i first saw the pic.

ipodee

07-02-2006, 08:13 PM

The N90 just isn't enough any more. And it doesn't vibrate which is getting more annoying as time passes. The incredibly poor battery life also doesn't help. On the bright side I am making £30 profit out of the sale.

N73 might be a possibility. The camera doesn't do it for me but the other features and form factor might.
wow, that's a lot to ask for a cam-phone...

i am just hoping that video shooting in low light condition for n73 isn't as bad as n80...

otherwise i am quite happy to have n73 for the large screen and speed plus candybar factor

jayesh

07-02-2006, 11:35 PM

deviant so what are you planning to use for now then

carcomptoy

07-03-2006, 12:41 AM

The N90 just isn't enough any more. And it doesn't vibrate which is getting more annoying as time passes. The incredibly poor battery life also doesn't help. On the bright side I am making £30 profit out of the sale.

N73 might be a possibility. The camera doesn't do it for me but the other features and form factor might.
Off topic I know, but those are exactly my complaints with the 9500! If it gets to me as badly as it did you, then I'm going to take the plunge for the N93;) Gotta have WiFi

zalameh1

07-03-2006, 01:43 AM

Gotta have WiFi

before i got my n80 i thought id be using WiFi alot.. now that i got the phone i rarely use it.. still, id prefer a phone with WiFi over a phone without as its just cool to have. thats why im not really planning on getting the n73.

carcomptoy

07-03-2006, 01:51 AM

That's really the only "downfall" if you may of the N73...the thing is, I love the WiFi because not just because it is faster (although not lightning speed as I would have previously thought it) but because it doesn't have any constrictions. For instance, my third-party software won't work over GPRS/EDGE (I think I need the higher tier plan which I may or may not upgrade to), but it works just dandy over WiFi.

edeab220

07-03-2006, 02:10 AM

Every day...my 6681 gets older and older :p. The pics look great, might save up to get one lol. I don't need WiFi in my phone, I've got a Palm T|X lol.

carcomptoy

07-03-2006, 02:51 AM

N73 would definitely be great for you. Want me to take the 6681 off your hands? hahaha

DEViANT

07-03-2006, 04:06 AM

deviant so what are you planning to use for now then

I'm going to go back to my 6630 for now until I find something out better I like, probably the 5500 Sport.

ipodee

07-03-2006, 05:58 AM

before i got my n80 i thought id be using WiFi alot.. now that i got the phone i rarely use it.. still, id prefer a phone with WiFi over a phone without as its just cool to have. thats why im not really planning on getting the n73.
i agree..i barely use the wifi but at times when i need it badly with a free wifi hotspot, it's good to have...

but otherwise, i am seldom in that situation, so for now, i am giving it up :)

shame a 2.4" screen will be good for browsing but als no wifi...

Jose_R.A.M

07-03-2006, 11:13 AM

Nokia will probably make another with with Wifi (not necessarily successor of N73, just the way things go tech wise and nokia)

As a stand alone phone its great. WIFI still isn't as popular amongst general users anyway.

On a side note, CPW has said n73 will come in August (after being predicted july. N93 is now not even in their brochure and the sales peeps have no idea when its coming.

crazyze

07-03-2006, 12:34 PM

DEViANT

07-03-2006, 12:35 PM

Nokia will probably make another with with Wifi (not necessarily successor of N73, just the way things go tech wise and nokia)

That's probably going to be the rumoured N83 isn't it? Trying to keep up with all these new phones is a nightmare...

Anyway, it's clear to me that any camera on a phone is going to take some while to catch up with a decent digital camera in terms of stills and videos. My N90 takes good photos but the shutter speed is slow that in darker situations things blur, whereas my digital camera will freeze it almost perfectly. Therefore, a basic camera is plenty on a phone for now.

crazyze

07-03-2006, 12:40 PM

Therefore, a basic camera is plenty on a phone for now.

I agree, a camera on a phone is for a quick snap, anything more than aquick snape should be used with a dedicated digi cam, still a couple of years off before camera phones replace cameras and even then I am sure Canon and others will try their best to make sure they do not lose sales!

Jose_R.A.M

07-03-2006, 12:48 PM

That's probably going to be the rumoured N83 isn't it? Trying to keep up with all these new phones is a nightmare...

Anyway, it's clear to me that any camera on a phone is going to take some while to catch up with a decent digital camera in terms of stills and videos. My N90 takes good photos but the shutter speed is slow that in darker situations things blur, whereas my digital camera will freeze it almost perfectly. Therefore, a basic camera is plenty on a phone for now.

Hmm, well in bar style, but yeah you're right, that is going to be the new Big Daddy of Nokia phones, with everything bar your kitchen sink.

Basic digicams may still beable to produce higher quality images, but its better than not being able to snap that image. i.e. most people will have theyre phone (camera one) with them to take photos of any situation but not always the digi-cam.

In terms of pixels, I don't really see the need of playing the numbers game. Like what do people do with these images anyway? Who blows up their images to an A3/A2/A1 print? I think that 3mp is also plenty for a phone...maybe as far as 5mp but no more.

My digicam comes with me for planned occassions, where I know I'm going to be taking photos. The phone-cam just snaps "memories/events" out of the blue. I'd be more than happy to have an N73 take over, as the pics its producing are excellent for such a well rounded and highly appealing (in terms of features) phone.

ipodee

07-03-2006, 05:15 PM

Hmm, well in bar style, but yeah you're right, that is going to be the new Big Daddy of Nokia phones, with everything bar your kitchen sink.

Basic digicams may still beable to produce higher quality images, but its better than not being able to snap that image. i.e. most people will have theyre phone (camera one) with them to take photos of any situation but not always the digi-cam.

In terms of pixels, I don't really see the need of playing the numbers game. Like what do people do with these images anyway? Who blows up their images to an A3/A2/A1 print? I think that 3mp is also plenty for a phone...maybe as far as 5mp but no more.

My digicam comes with me for planned occassions, where I know I'm going to be taking photos. The phone-cam just snaps "memories/events" out of the blue. I'd be more than happy to have an N73 take over, as the pics its producing are excellent for such a well rounded and highly appealing (in terms of features) phone.

i agree ... anyway most of the photos i take digitally now arent developed or printed, as with my many friends.

for 4R printing, a 3mp is more than adequate and if u arent a pro photographer, chances are u wun bother with a lot of the artefacts or distortions.

for many occasions, the cam phone suffices

carcomptoy

07-03-2006, 08:20 PM

Yeah I would definitely love having a high quality camera where ever I go. Granted I'll still have a semi-SLR, but that'll be for special occasions and for when I'm playing the tourist. I obviously don't want to be carrying that around on a normal basis, but I'd still like a decent camera. I'm seriously considering getting the N93 next year...I'll sell off the 9500 and maybe the N93 will have dropped down in price enough. I'm hoping current N90 prices. If not, then I might take a good look at the N73, although I will sorely miss the WiFi.

Jose_R.A.M

07-03-2006, 11:56 PM

N93 may be the perfect trade off for you.

Plus you get that versatile rotating screen that's actually really useful for taking pictures (that you won't necessarily be able to get with static screens)

Its too big for most and that's where the n73 steps in.

carcomptoy

07-04-2006, 12:49 AM

haha not too big for a 9500 user:p

Yeah I am glad that Nokia did make a small candybar phone to combat with the K800i...now if they could just release it soon so SE doesn't have the upperhand that the Xbox has over the PS3:cool:

urwurst_nytmayr

07-04-2006, 09:07 PM

yeah, n93 for me as well, but I just wish they put 3d acceleration chip there, that's what the tv-out is for ;)... But I think I'm asking too much already...

Now talking of this high-end nokia stuff, I wish I could open a small portal into the future, just small enough so that my hand can go through and buy a phone from the future, hehe...

robbii

07-05-2006, 01:24 AM

awesome phone, poor design for me :(
I didn't know you designed a better phone.

I just wish they put 3d acceleration chip there, that's what the tv-out is for
What signifigance would 3D make on a phone? You have other restrictions like processor, memory and interface.

urwurst_nytmayr

07-05-2006, 06:56 PM

What signifigance would 3D make on a phone? You have other restrictions like processor, memory and interface.

It's for gaming.. n93 imo will have the fastest processor and ram of all n-series if it comes out, by the time, the interface(symbian 3rd ed would have matured as well) It won't be much restriction if the acceleration chip is designed for mobile handsets, or if it came with it's own processor and memory.

I would understand if nokia didn't put that feature in n93, as always, they don't try to put all good features in one phone, otherwise, people won't buy their other phones or new ones :D

DEViANT

07-05-2006, 07:30 PM

What signifigance would 3D make on a phone? You have other restrictions like processor, memory and interface.

Put it this way, would you rather have the latest and greatest CPU (i.e. Athlon FX-62) with on-board graphics or a mid-range CPU (Pentium 4) with top-end graphics card? The mid-range one with a dedicated card is faster in games by a long shot.

Bit hypocritical for you to make that statement having just slated shaheen for not liking the phone design, I do believe Nokia will have thought of all this and considered the pros and cons of a 3D accelerator before adopting it. I don't recall you having designed something better?

I would understand if nokia didn't put that feature in n93, as always, they don't try to put all good features in one phone, otherwise, people won't buy their other phones or new ones

I think the downfall with this is its massive weight and size. Weighing in at 190g, it makes the N90 look agile and light.

xumdeo

07-05-2006, 10:37 PM

what's up with the CZ optics, purple fringing appears to be worse than k800i, and all the pics look kind of mushy (+pixelated) at 100%

but you're right, noise control is pretty well-done

do you have any video samples by any chance?

robbii

07-06-2006, 12:23 AM

I don't recall you having designed something better?
I'm not a hater and I do know how much work goes into 'good' product design, and I wouldn't criticize something unless my own professional work was better. The way I criticize products is reflected on what I purchase.
Put it this way, would you rather have the latest and greatest CPU (i.e. Athlon FX-62) with on-board graphics or a mid-range CPU (Pentium 4) with top-end graphics card?
Good point, but imagine trying to play the greatest game in the world with your thumbs on a tiny screen...'interface' is a key factor.You have other restrictions like processor, memory and interface.I'm all for more capable handsets but right now I would be thrilled to have an N73 for my next year long contract. The feature I want is wireless VOIP (N93 hopefully).

urwurst_nytmayr

07-06-2006, 01:00 AM

I'm not a hater and I do know how much work goes into 'good' product design, and I wouldn't criticize something unless my own professional work was better. The way I criticize products is reflected on what I purchase.

Good point, but imagine trying to play the greatest game in the world with your thumbs on a tiny screen...'interface' is a key factor.

As for the design part, we think the same, it's not my job, but I've done some gadgets myself following detailed designs(CAD) I also made. I know how a nokia looks inside and if I were to follow my guidelines, they fail miserably. They could use durability as an excuse, but that can be mitigated easily should they decide to go the 'right way'. Done with the critique, I still like their phones, durability is enough for me, I'd rather save my ideas for more important stuff.

...For your second statement Robbii, you must've forgotten that I've mentioned earlier that n93 has a TV out, so you don't have to play on a tiny screen....

robbii

07-06-2006, 01:34 AM

...For your second statement Robbii, you must've forgotten that I've mentioned earlier that n93 has a TV out, so you don't have to play on a tiny screen....
imagine trying to play the greatest game in the world with your thumbs on a tiny screen...'interface' is a key factor.I did see your previous comment...it's gaming with my thumbs on a phone keypad is what makes it a dealbreaker.

Actually my criticism of nokia is that they would get more of my money if their new products were more available more often in the U.S.

ipodee

07-06-2006, 07:39 AM

I did see your previous comment...it's gaming with my thumbs on a phone keypad is what makes it a dealbreaker.

Actually my criticism of nokia is that they would get more of my money if their new products were more available more often in the U.S.
fir fairness, they are trying hard, it's more often american telcos arent readily carrying nokias and partly because the band which the US operates at 850/1900...

ipodee

07-09-2006, 09:45 AM

http://flickr.com/photos/arlesnokia/

new gallery... look at the originals... decent really...

robbii

07-09-2006, 11:31 AM

http://flickr.com/photos/arlesnokia/wow.

DEViANT

07-09-2006, 11:46 AM

wow.

Hmm, I'm still unimpressed, the images aren't sharp or clear, colour saturation is merely ok and there is significant softness in the corners of the photos, details also aren't resolved well and there are plentiful artifacts on contrasty edges. At it's native resolution my (ex) N90 took better snaps. Maybe they will be improved before it is released. At the moment nothing out there really grabs me, I was really looking forward to the N73, but the photos aren't a great deal better than the N80 (which is fixed focus) which again, was a let-down now it's out. The only worthwhile thing happening with the phones at the moment is that the N80 is slowly but surely falling in price on both eBay and contract. It is safe to say at this present time that the K800i takes better photos than this phone.

Daedalus

07-09-2006, 12:21 PM

I think the same, they have the same problem as the 6280, far far far too sharp, makes the pictures look edgey and grainy due to the sharpness being through the roof. Not the winner I was hoping for, shame because i was looking forward to that.

Looks like I'm getting a K800i then....

mweb6161onMB

07-09-2006, 02:36 PM

And deliver no improvement in image quality over comparable devices from other makers. looks are down to personal taste, If you think N73 looks good your devoid of that attribute.:D

DEViANT

07-09-2006, 03:34 PM

And deliver no improvement in image quality over comparable devices from other makers. looks are down to personal taste, If you think N73 looks good your devoid of that attribute.:D

The lens system on the N90 was very good, the images were clean and showed extremely low barrel distortion (and low edge softness) which are traits of a good lens system. It's a shame the N73 doesn't. I have a strong feeling the N93 will do a lot better and then I start to think maybe this N73 is deliberately crippled so the N93 isn't overshadowed. It seems the N-series is breaking off into precise classes, N7x multimedia all-round, N8x high-end multimedia and connectivity (based purely on N80), N9x imaging and video.

Fortunately for SE (and unfortunate for Nokia) they seem to have shown that specialist lenses are not required for good photos. It is no wonder the K750i and W800i were such good sellers, and where the K800i picks up from.

shaheen

07-09-2006, 04:02 PM

bleh im so sick of trying to find a good phone with good camera and video, think im just going to get another 903sh, untouchable phone.

mweb6161onMB

07-09-2006, 04:05 PM

Fortunately for SE (and unfortunate for Nokia) they seem to have shown that specialist lenses are not required for good photos.
"specialist lenses" IE CZ, do NOT offer superior images, (for the sake of repeating myself):rolleyes:

DEViANT

07-09-2006, 04:12 PM

"specialist lenses" IE CZ, do NOT offer superior images, (for the sake of repeating myself):rolleyes:

Erm, yeah, try telling SLR professional photographers that...

The N90 does have superior images to other phones, there is low barrel distortion and the edges are sharp and in focus.

Why the N73 doesn't follow this trend is unknown but it quite clearly doesn't.

The 903SH? That is one place I will never stoop to. It's all very well having a good camera, but when that's all I'll give it a miss. I actually am not aware of the video quality on that phone. The shame with the current Nokia smartphones is that they aren't truly smart at the moment because there is no software out there for them, I guess it will slowly trickle in.

ipodee

07-09-2006, 05:05 PM

Hmm, I'm still unimpressed, the images aren't sharp or clear, colour saturation is merely ok and there is significant softness in the corners of the photos, details also aren't resolved well and there are plentiful artifacts on contrasty edges. At it's native resolution my (ex) N90 took better snaps. Maybe they will be improved before it is released. At the moment nothing out there really grabs me, I was really looking forward to the N73, but the photos aren't a great deal better than the N80 (which is fixed focus) which again, was a let-down now it's out. The only worthwhile thing happening with the phones at the moment is that the N80 is slowly but surely falling in price on both eBay and contract. It is safe to say at this present time that the K800i takes better photos than this phone.
again, you have a keen eye...
perhaps u shd wait for n93, even some digital cameras out there can produce bad photos, i think the n73's fotos are much better than n80

for me, my prints are never going to be more than 4r if they ever get printed in the 1st place

DEViANT

07-09-2006, 05:34 PM

again, you have a keen eye...
perhaps u shd wait for n93, even some digital cameras out there can produce bad photos, i think the n73's fotos are much better than n80

for me, my prints are never going to be more than 4r if they ever get printed in the 1st place

I wouldn't have minded so much, but Nokia have been bigging this handset up so much that I would have come to expect great things from it. On the other hand the relatively silently released K800i takes stunning photos, doing the almost unthinkable and improving on the already decent K750i. Like Daedalus pointed out, the quality of the N73 looks similar to what is going on in the 6280. At this point in time, N90's photos are better than N73. Even though 6280 took average pics at least Nokia didn't spend time making it sound like a pro-digital camera so when I got one, I was pleasantly surprised. If I got the N73 I would be wholeheartedly disappointed.

urwurst_nytmayr

07-09-2006, 07:13 PM

And deliver no improvement in image quality over comparable devices from other makers. looks are down to personal taste, If you think N73 looks good your devoid of that attribute.:D

I partly agree with you, but the quality(let's say 'smoothness' opposite of 'grainy') and sharpness is heavily dependent on the aperture(opening) of the lens. This is affected by two factors, the diameter of the lens and the size of the hole of the iris. For single lens designs, the focusing distance is also a factor, this indicated by '4.5mm' in you fone lens for exmple.

The bigger your lens is, the smoother/better quality/even brighter your pics will be. The smaller the iris, the sharper it will be at the cost of being grainier and darker pics-this part doesn't hold always true for compound lens design of pro-cameras. For Nokias, the lens diameter and iris opening is always a compromise between quality vs sharpness..

Getting back to CZ of n73, while the quality of the lens is top quality(I said 'lens' not the picture :D) the small diameter of the lens is to blame for lack of picture quality. I hate to say this but don't expect any magic from any lens smaller than 10mm in diameter, even if they say 5, 10, 100 megapixels, they will look a lot crappier than 1.3 megapixels of pro cameras.., and do more harm of occupying useless space on your drive E:. With that, you'd be in a right mind to buy a camera fone with 10mm dia unbranded lens than one with 5mm CZ

robbii

07-09-2006, 07:31 PM

DEViANT

07-09-2006, 08:26 PM

For a 'phone' I think N-Series imaging is on the right track, not enough to replace a true digicam but for something that's in your pocket full-time as well as being capable as instantly sharing them, what compares? Once more N-Series become more availabe stateside I'll be sure to have one for my next year long contract.

It's a phone first, multimedia computer second.

I'm aware of that as are many others but if that is the case then Nokia shouldn't go around making wild claims that they are good enough to replace a digital camera when they are blatantly not. Nokia is trying the convergence thing and I am all up for that but not when the phones end up (as the saying goes) 'a jack of all trades and a master of none'. Whilst my primary phone will always be a Nokia, SE are making trails and will soon beat them if they are not careful. SE had a real winner with the K750i/W800i and quite rightly so, it was comparatively cheap and affordable, camera quality was top-notch, music abilities were better than the average phone, it wasn't a brick, it looked good and build quality was decent.

difenbaker

07-09-2006, 09:11 PM

I think I like the sharpness, certainly it's a change from the "blurry" effect and noise of phonecams that came before it.

I think that the "autofocus" of the n73 is less noticeable in those photos though - coz they look kinda "flat". Maybe it was turned off? Or maybe it's because the subject matter was further from the lens? Even the w810 takes 'flat' photos if the subject is far away, doesn't it? (no depth of field to speak of).

I was expecting something like this maybe? But this effect, clearly showing the autofocus of the camera, is done because the subject was close. (taken with k750)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g240/yose12/DSC00003resized.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g240/yose12/DSC00026resized.jpg

cheers!

urwurst_nytmayr

07-09-2006, 09:22 PM

For a 'phone' I think N-Series imaging is on the right track, not enough to replace a true digicam but for something that's in your pocket full-time as well as being capable as instantly sharing them, what compares? Once more N-Series become more availabe stateside I'll be sure to have one for my next year long contract.

It's a phone first, multimedia computer second.

N-series has the potential to rival digicams, specially the n90 and the upcoming n93. Due to the fact that these phones had a very ingenious design of housing the lens in a much longer tube than other phones(even SE's cybershot brand), they could accommodate the much larger compound lens of pocket digicams. The sad fact that Nokia didn't take advantage of the full potential of the design... :(

robbii

07-10-2006, 12:55 AM

For a 'phone' I think N-Series imaging is on the right track, not enough to replace a true digicam...It's a phone first, multimedia computer second.cmon guys, let's not hose nokia for having their seemingly imperfections. do you think that if canon or nikon made camera phones they would be perfect after only a few generations? it took camera companies a good decade to make digital imaging believable to the mass consumer.

Sony on the other hand has had quite a bit more experience with *cough* walkman audio products and *cough* cybershot digital cameras. Nokia had no vast digital imaging background and IMO nokia's core competency is their phone, UI and usability. If the pictures taken from N-series were good enough for you guys, then technically wouldn't they be the best product all around with no rival?

All this ticky tack stuff about image quality is stuff that will eventually get worked out as the product matures so I would like to give credit to nokia for developing their imaging capability into what may eventually catch up to similar resolution digital cameras.

urwurst_nytmayr

07-10-2006, 01:26 AM

...it took camera companies a good decade to make digital imaging believable to the mass consumer...

I know, so you're implying Nokia had to reinvent the wheel? The digital camera in this case? I don't know but they may have to reinvent, but I don't think it will require 10 decades.. they could just buy a sony cybershot in secret, have their engineers open the stuff and reverse engineer it, the Chinese are quite an expert in this, they even do this with russian fighter planes. And I don't think the Chinese are any better than European engineers.

So the inferiority of the product comes down to one thing.. Marketting.. sounds ironic, Nokia doesn't want to push the prices of their phones up so the reason for inferior camera quality... Good set of lens and say, sensor comes at a hefty price..

robbii

07-10-2006, 02:02 AM

have their engineers open the stuff and reverse engineer it, the Chinese are quite an expert in this, they even do this with russian fighter planes. And I don't think the Chinese are any better than European engineers.I am one of the many westerners whose work sends them to China to figure out why the Chinese Engineers can't figure out seemingly routine things, applied experience and wealth of knowledge is a tremendous advantage to product development.I know, so you're implying Nokia had to reinvent the wheel? The digital camera in this case? I don't know but they may have to reinvent, but I don't think it will require 10 decadesDon't forget that digital imaging isn't entirely optics, there's all sorts of algorithms and technical programming mumbo jumbo that the digital camera manufacturers *cough*Sony*cough*have experience with that nokia may not have immediate access to. I think it would be fair to compare a 3mp digital camera from years back to the N73 no?

robbii

07-10-2006, 02:39 AM

they could just buy a sony cybershot in secret, have their engineers open the stuff and reverse engineer it,I was just looking at some samples from a 1mp Sony digicam and they are beautiful. Nokia has definitely got a ways to go to catch up to Sony's wealth of digital imaging history. If they want to compete against true digicams...they better hire more people. Maybe the hardware spec is there but all the other technical magic that happens to produce that image will need a couple more development cycles.

urwurst_nytmayr

07-10-2006, 03:04 AM

..Don't forget that digital imaging isn't entirely optics, there's all sorts of algorithms and technical programming mumbo jumbo that the digital camera manufacturers *cough*Sony*cough*have experience with that nokia may not have immediate access to.

Yes, but optics still play a big(very big) role, back when I was a kid, I used to experiment with lenses, small and big ones, even used compound ones. I was able to adopt them to a nikon 35mm SLR. The small diameter lenses(the ones I'm using are even bigger than nokias) produced grainy, dark, poor definition images(like the ones shot by nokia, hehe!!), while the big ones produced images with much greater quality overall.

Don't get me wrong I know sensors play a big part too, but when take a look at images captured by my uncle's n70, I now realize that Nokia isn't no longer a 'rookie' at the field, they've gone a long way and I think they've improved a lot. The small diameter lenses(nokias is too small, the good ones used by digicams are at 10mm or bigger in diameter) is their big let down, and I think they should even invest in compound types to eliminate distortion at the edges and aberration(rainbow colors).

To top it all, I don't think complex lenses have to be expensive, H*ll I could buy a pair of small good binoculars costing just 50 dollars...

robbii

07-10-2006, 10:02 AM

Hmm, I'm still unimpressed, the images aren't sharp or clear, colour saturation is merely ok and there is significant softness in the corners of the photos, details also aren't resolved well and there are plentiful artifacts on contrasty edges. At it's native resolution my (ex) N90 took better snaps. Maybe they will be improved before it is released. At the moment nothing out there really grabs me, I was really looking forward to the N73, but the photos aren't a great deal better than the N80 (which is fixed focus)This is where camera companies have the developmental experience advantage over handset manufacturers and where sony has interpollenation from both types of products. Comments mentioned are software/hardware related but not optics related. Optics don't remove artifacts or contrasty edges. Give nokia more time to get all their quantization algorithms dialed in. Besides Sony which has an entire division of it's company dedicated to digital imaging, are there any other camera phones that come close to N-Series?

DEViANT

07-10-2006, 10:07 AM

This is where camera companies have the developmental experience advantage over handset manufacturers and where sony has interpollenation from both types of products. Comments mentioned are software/hardware related but not optics related. Optics don't remove artifacts or contrasty edges. Give nokia more time to get all their quantization algorithms dialed in. Besides Sony which has an entire division of it's company dedicated to digital imaging, are there any other camera phones that come close to N-Series?

Yes, but soft corners is a lens thing. And also, Nokia never fixed the aforementioned issues on the 6280 so I don't think they will on this phone. Like I said, I have a suspicious feeling they deliberately crippled it to make the N93 signficantly better.

urwurst_nytmayr

07-10-2006, 07:47 PM

.. Optics don't remove artifacts or contrasty edges...

Which shows that you got a lot to learn about optics and lenses and how they work with digital sensors. You can ask digital professional photographers, or videographers, they'll tell you that grainy images, or poor contrast is a result of low-light condition. You combat that by using bigger lenses that gathers more light, and hence, less grainy, better contrast. Bigger lens will also improve image definition.. N93 seems to have one big lens so I have great imaging expectations to that phone :D

To add, imaging sensors, have been around for quite some time now, around 1960's.. In my knowledge, based on the devices I've disassembled, Sony have been using CMOS/CCD sensors as early 1980's in their Video cams(it could be much earlier, probably, late seventies..) As for Nikon, they only begun to use CMOS or other sensors in the 90's. So we can now establish that Sony ahead by more than a decade in digital sensor/algorithm experience than Nikon. Then how come, Nikon turned out much better looking images than Sony? :p

robbii

07-11-2006, 01:06 AM

grainy images, or poor contrast is a result of low-light condition. bigger lenses...less grainy, better contrast. Bigger lens will also improve image definition..Um...some of the outdoor daylight sample pics had artifacts and contrasty edges. I hardly consider outdoor daylight to be considered low-light conditions but what do I know because I...got a lot to learn about optics and lenses and how they work with digital sensors.To add, imaging sensors, have been around for quite some time now, around 1960's..Are you a historian? What's with the 60's reference? In my knowledge, based on the devices I've disassembled,I hope you were able to get them back together ;) the square peg goes in the round hole. Sony have been using CMOS/CCD sensors as early 1980's in their Video cams(it could be much earlier, probably, late seventies..) As for Nikon, they only begun to use CMOS or other sensors in the 90's. [B]So we can now establish that Sony ahead by more than a decade in digital sensor/algorithm experience than Nikon.Then how come, Nikon turned out much better looking images than Sony?[B]I'm talking about Sony's cybershot line circa 1999-present. Sony had Mavica circa '98, Nikon had Coolpix 100 circa '97. Nikon was ahead of Sony in digital imaging, Nikon is considered a believable brand amongst pro photographers, and Nikon makes their own lenses. Now that we've established Nikon's core competencies and that Nikon is not likely to make phones (even though they would be fun to develop) let alone a perfect phone within the first couple of attempts, let's get back to this thread.

I'm undecided as to get an N80 now or hold out for N73 or N93. I'm thinking N73 unless someone can sell me on why wifi is so important when it sucks your battery and you can have unlimited edge data in the US for $20.

difenbaker

07-11-2006, 01:37 AM

It is safe to say at this present time that the K800i takes better photos than this phone.

hi there,.... I've seen photos taken with a k800, imo, they're not any better than those. In fact, in most low light situations, even the 2mp N90 takes better photos.

just my 2 cents.

cheers!

urwurst_nytmayr

07-11-2006, 03:19 AM

Um...some of the outdoor daylight sample pics had artifacts and contrasty edges.

I forgot to mention that even despite using the tiny lens in broad daylight, you'll still get poor quality images but brighter of course, sorry, my bad :)

I'm talking about Sony's cybershot line circa 1999-present. Sony had Mavica circa '98, Nikon had Coolpix 100 circa '97. Nikon was ahead of Sony in digital imaging,

Yep, that's true, if we talk of digicams, but if we say of 'digital imaging' as you mentioned, Sony's still got decades more experience. But even then that doesn't make Sony or even Nikon superior in some way against each other

Give nokia more time to get all their quantization algorithms dialed in. Besides Sony which has an entire division of it's company dedicated to digital imaging, are there any other camera phones that come close to N-Series?

Nokia don't need extra time, to perfect their sensors, in fact they could do that anytime, CMOS algorithms haven't changed much for a good decade. You only need to simply increase CMOS rendering resolution and processing power. Here's some simple equations regarding digital quality that may clear up some questions regarding camera phone image quality Lighting conditions: normal, Focusing: Fixed but subject at 'infinity'(subject is in focus, so to say..)Lens: 3mm diameter

High res CMOS + low processing power = noisy high-res image even when bright, blurry as well.
low res CMOS + low processing power = little or no noise, sharp image but at low resolutions.
low res CMOS + very low processor = noisy, low res image but sharp.
High res CMOS + high processing power = little or no noise, fast processing of high res images, but blurry image.

Lens: standard digicam

High res CMOS + low processing power = medium noise, high-res image , image is sharp.
low res CMOS + low processing power = little or no noise, sharp image but at low resolutions.
low res CMOS + very low processor = little noise, low res image but sharp.
High res CMOS + high processing power = little or no noise, fast processing of high res images, sharp image.

Most camera phones fall under this category: 3mm lens
High res CMOS + low processing power = noisy high-res image even when bright, blurry as well. <-- this is in comparison to digicams...

This is what camera phones need to have in order to have sharper looking images:
at least 10mm diameter lens
medium to high res CMOS + high processing power = N93 seem to fit this category, and we shall see.... :D

digi snacks

07-21-2006, 05:41 AM

I am one of the many westerners whose work sends them to China to figure out why the Chinese Engineers can't figure out seemingly routine things, applied experience and wealth of knowledge is a tremendous advantage to product development.Don't forget that digital imaging isn't entirely optics, there's all sorts of algorithms and technical programming mumbo jumbo that the digital camera manufacturers *cough*Sony*cough*have experience with that nokia may not have immediate access to. I think it would be fair to compare a 3mp digital camera from years back to the N73 no?

is there something wrong with this guy??????????

why is he coughing so much does he have a cold or is sick in the head?